Desperately Seeking Conflict

[raefinlay]

*sigh* I have a problem.

I lurve to develop stuff. Building characters, creating setting, gradually revealing motivation and plot... I lurve it. I lurve it with passionate hotmonkey lurve.



Alas, no one wants to read such painstaking development. Readers want ACTION. They want to know what the story is about right up front, so they know whether to invest the time. This frolicking about with the reader, teasing him with veiled hints, sprinkling character insights... it's soooo last century.

This is the X-box society. We can drive a stick shift and talk on the cell phone and suck a mocha all at once. How does one write for such a culture? Well, not the way I've been writing, that's for sure.

I'm gonna have to think about this for a while.

On a somewhat related note, I finally got the dreaded anticipated EC review for Elisa 1. It was slightly less devastating than expected. As well as helpful, dead-on, and all that stuff. Funny, Ms. Smith-Gaynor said exactly the same thing everyonesakitty told me right after I posted it. Holly is Teh Smart.



And now, I must watch Angel. Because it's Friday night and Friday nights are Whedon nights.

Comments

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

Because it's Friday night and Friday nights are Whedon nights.

For you every night is a Whedon night. You no longer spend time with your friends you're so busy with Whedon! :P ;) *seeths in jealousy*

;)

Dude, you do have conflict, but it's more... subtle. It's not outright conflict. And while some people appreciate it, the wider audience will probably appreciate a more outright conflict, like you've said.

As to how to do that... I suppose it depends on the story, right? Some stories will have subtle conflicts, and others will have lots of Scary Danger. *shrug*

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

Hey! Not all nights are Whedon nights! I've been busy reading and being generally ill too. So THERE.

*wants Scary Danger in WIP*
*tickles Jodi with whole wheat fettucini noodles (cooked al dente)*

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

*Scary Dangers RaeRae*

*but tickled, first*

:D

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's entirely fair to characterize this as the X-box society when one of the bestsellers of the last year is Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, which certainly takes its time to get where it's going. The frolicking with the reader is two centuries ago now, but it's never really gone entirely away.

[aaron-mag.livejournal.com]

Heh heh...

Dude. Holly is the conflict queen! That is the first thing she asks. Where is the conflict. Where is the tension.

I read the EC review. It was much like mine. Complimentary in some areas and then ripping you to shreds in others. Then you have all these people saying, "Congratulations" and you keep saying, "Yeah, but did you read the review! I got ripped apart!!!" But everyone ignores you and says, "Well congrats anyway."

Strangely enough our reviews were exactly reversed. I didn't have enough world-building.

Further thoughts...

I thought the EC review was a good one. It isn't because this is an Xbox society. First off...what is your goal? It is to sell this story. Do you know how many editors/agents get stories from 'would be' writers that ramble all over the place and go nowhere? I don't either, but I'm guessing it is a lot. We've all read stuff like that. You follow for chapters and chapters waiting for all the pieces to fall into place, and then they don't. Or they are just thrown together in a mish-mash of improbable events.

Editors and Agents don't have time to find out, in your junior effort, if you know how to hang a plot together. You've got to hit them over the head with it at the beginning.

EB is a good character. She is definetely not stereotypical. The setting and little dashes of flavor are awesome (all these things were pointed out by EC). But EC also hit upon a good point when she said, "I'd like to know more of what Elisa wants...but I would like to see some glimmer of what it is that will make her a heroine in the end..."

These elements are definetly there. Elisa, for example, stuffs her face in front of her sister's disapproval. She really, despite all her personal misgivings, doesn't give a shit. She doesn't want to be like her sister, even though she does have some respect for her. She wants to be herself. And that is something. That is certainly something.

So a massive rewrite on conflict is probably not needed. Just a strengthening of what is already there and more clues about the overall conflict.

My 2 cents, anyway...

[janeorben.livejournal.com]

Do what you love, duh. Frankly, I HATE books that are all action and little character development etc. That's probably why I think your stuff is some of the best on OWW. You are an artist as well as a writer. And guess what - every once in a while books with huge artistic merit become best-sellers. And you know what else? Those are the ones that become classics, and continue to be best-sellers long after they've gone out of mainstream fashion. That rarely happens with high-action trade paperback sci fi. (Mostly read by teenagers.) So do what you love (your writing will be better for it) and stop buying into this half-baked bullcrap about everybody wanting action. Not everyone does.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

You aren't reading enough off the workshop. It is time to go read Other Books and see what's selling and when and where.

It's very different than what you expect when you've been reading OWW manuscripts nonstop for about two years. *g*

Go read Karen Traviss. And Charles Stross. And China Miéville. And Neal Stephenson.

And *breathe.*

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

Good point. I haven't read that one, though it's been recommended to me multiple times. I guess this means I'll be taking a trip to the bookstore today. Hate it when that happens...

:-)

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

Thx, Aaron. Yep, I totally agreed with the EC review. On every single point. I do need an extra layer of conflict in there exactly for the reasons you pointed out.

I remember your EC chapter well. Lots of action, motivation was very clear...I can see why a reader would get sucked in. (And it wasn't just action for action's sake.)

Speaking of which...how is chapter 2 coming along??? *waits, but not patiently*

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

Other Books?? *boggles*

That's a really good point. I think my view has become a bit insulated.

And...thx, Bear.

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

Thx Martha. :-)

OH! And Congrats on your sale!!!

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

*g* des nada. You go, girl.

[kmkibble75.livejournal.com]

Not that she needs it, but I'm going to agree with Bear.

Writing a book and writing for the workshop are two completely different things, and you need to keep that firmly in mind if you post as you go (like I do). There's a trap where you might feel the need to write in a serial format -- a mini-episode with its own arc and conclusion -- to make sure reviewers will want to click the next link and read on. We tend to forget that if someone buys this in a book version, well, chances are they'll read on as long as the writing is good and there's some form of movement.

Let me give you an example -- One of my crits of either Chapter 12 or 13 of Once-Turned said that I needed a better hook to make sure new readers would want to stick around. But actually, I don't, because very few readers, if any, will buy the book in a bookstore, flip to Chapter 13 and begin reading. So while we need a hook in Chapter One, something to make us raise our eyebrows and think, "Well, that's interesting," I don;t think you need to jump into the action-action right away. As long as there's character growth and a hint of a conflict building, I think you'll be okay.

I'm enjoying Elise's Belly as is quite a bit so far...

[pjthompson]

What Bear and Kev and others said. Workshopitis. Two things OWWers will always harp on: tension and showing-not-telling. Each of those things is important, but aren't the only things. And not every reader requires instant gratification. Intelligent readers want more than action-action-action all the time and appreciate a subtle building of character and world as long as those things are intelligently done. And you've got nothing to worry about there.

As to your EC review, they always feel like a bit of a gut-shot. I've had some that had me quivering. But yanno, she also said lots of good things. (If you're like me you tend to focus on the bad things to the exclusion of the good.) She picked your chapter out of a whole month's collection and said, "Yay, she is Worthy. I have looked upon her work and, yay, it is Good." :-)

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

...very few readers, if any, will buy the book in a bookstore, flip to Chapter 13 and begin reading.

yes! very true. when I'm in a bookstore, I read the first few pages to see if it grabs me. then, I read a few random pages in the middle, but NOT for grabbiness. Those, I read to see if I like the style and voice. And yeah, if you haven't hooked a reader by ch 13, ya ain't nevah.

[raecarson.livejournal.com]

Thx Pam. Workshopitis! Hahahah! Yes, I've already suffered at the hands of the Passive Police, the Adverb Nazis, and Masters of the Single Entendre ("this just wasn't very clear..."). The 'shop is a wonderful, useful place. But yeah, we ultimately must make our own decisions.